Science as the guardian of truth
Has the scientific community set itself up as the arbiter of truth? To a great extent, I believe it has.
In “science” there is a pretension not only to know, but to know what is unknown. There is an assumption that because something cannot be proven by science, it cannot be known as a certainty. However, the fact is, just because scientists don’t know something, that cannot be counted as proof that nobody knows it.
There are people who know things that science cannot know, because the information falls outside the realm of scientific experimentation or measurements. However, what the “scientific community” does not know is presumed by them to be an unknown. And it is by this designation of being an unknown, they think to ‘know’ things they have no knowledge of. Thus they categorize all things ‘known’ or ‘unknown’, and thus they ‘know’ all things.
“Science” cannot know what I am thinking all the time, but I do, and only I do. Nor by “science” can I prove all my thoughts or many experiences only I have had. Even if I reveal them it doesn’t prove them, it merely proves what I say they are. But that does not mean they did not happen or exist because only I know them.
It is absurd to say because something cannot be proven by science it therefore does not exist. It is presumptuous to assume that because something is not known by most that it is unknown by all. It is presumptuous to say that because a majority of people who profess a faith are deceived, all are.
By science, one may only assume there is no God–but again, by science one can assume there is. On the other hand, by a personal experience, one may be deceived, then again, one may know. That is something that may be beyond all others.
This is why I say that in “science”, the pretension is to know everything, by believing that things unknown to them are unknown to all. Thus, they establish “truth” by determining and categorizing everything as known or unknown. Not all scientists of course, but it is a common practice in modern science.
The “scientific community” can think to know what it does and does not know, but it cannot truly know what anyone else knows, personal experiences and knowledge are not subject to science. And, “the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”
You see, it’s demonstrations of ignorance and flawed reasoning like this that make religious believers so readily subject to ridicule.
This is such a mess of illogic, it defies understanding that someone actually can believe this.
I highly suggest educating yourself a little on what science actually is before musing on it, mr. filloseffer.
Reply: As it is practiced today, science is merely an art, not much more. There are too many agenda driven ideologues in the ‘scientific’ community for it to be otherwise. It is not my problem if you cannot grasp that.
Somehow, when scientists figure out how to cure your heart disease using stem cells, I doubt you’ll refuse treatment on the grounds that it’s little more than artwork.
Science has many faces. The most strident voice, the one most often seen, prides itself in no longer being mere engineering, no longer being bound by mere experiential empiricism, no longer limited by hoary philosophical traditions, and no longer being comprehensible to the uninitiated.
This is the “science” in academia, a proud and incredible thing.
I presume this is Roberts “science”.
Other “science” is being done in engineering departments, private research facilities and military and government research departments– largely by people with engineering backgrounds.
They talk less. They publish less too. Probably because they work too much.
Perhaps the reason they don’t feel as defensive as the academic “scientists” is that they often tend to be kind of religious and conservative. Obviously it must be that which blinds them to the great truths that we now finally– after millenia of going this way and that– that we finally finally understand. What a relief, huh!?
Hey, maybe some science is more like “art”, and other science more like, “building”?
I love the theoretical sciences as opposed to the applied ones. But perhaps that’s just a class thing on my part. I admit, looking down on anyone as much as I sometimes do must, in itself, be less than perfectly rational. For this, my apologies.
“I love the theoretical sciences as opposed to the applied ones. But perhaps that’s just a class thing on my part. I admit, looking down on anyone as much as I sometimes do must, in itself, be less than perfectly rational.”
Spokenwritten like a true elitists.Theorize away; just be careful in imposing theories upon others as though they are absolute truth.
just be careful in imposing theories upon others as though they are absolute truth.
Well that’s the fun part, isn’t it?
(Got it. Still learning how to drive this damn thing….)
Well that’s the fun part, isn’t it?
Look, believe it or not, I’m not trying to be rude; but here’s the issue: You religious types have to make everything alive. I suspect that its because you can’t admit you are kind of lonely and even, sometimes, unfortunately, a little bit dull.
For you, everything is “spiritual”, magic. “God” is everywhere. Angels, devils, spirits or “The Holy Ghost”– probably fairies and elves, too (just kidding).
I mean this with only the utmost kindness: Its Dead. Its Dead. Its Dead, Jim. Its dead, its dead, its dead. It comes from death, and its going to death, and in between its Dead.
And not only is *it* all dead, for all intents and purposes, so are “you”. “You” are simply composed of “dead” matter, that moves NOT BECAUSE IT WANTS TO, but because it HAS TO. There is no “life” because there is no choice. There is no choice because there is no chooser. There is just a very complex web of cause, and effect compelling everything that happens, like an infinitely vast, slowly exploding molecular Timex.
Nothing “wants”, organisms just feel that way in order to “live”. There is no “self”, just a construction of the dead matter of your molecularly determined and compelled flesh that serves to give you something to focus your survival instinct upon. There is no “consciousness” in the sense of a “mind”. There is only your brain, and your brain on religion (sorry, I couldn’t resist).
What I mean is, not only are you, actually, all alone; “you” don’t even have “yourself” since there is no “self”, just successfully self-organized dirt. I completely understand that being very very hard for you to take. Really.
No spirit, no soul, no mind, no self. “You” are not here. “I” am not here. The only reason I’m writing right now is it give the organic machine that is “me” pleasure and fulfills instincts of various and inscrutable sort. And “you” read because “you” want to defend your sense of self so you have a reason for a survival instinct (or breeding instinct, or whatnot).
To put it succinctly, everything is matter, so nothing matters. Why am I even writing this, really? I guess “we” are all just along for the ride as our bodies grow, mate, and die– illusions to fool our bodies into living, just as “God” is an illusion to fool us into “caring” (caring about each other, that is).
Damn it this is depressing, but just like Nietzsche keeps telling us, only the strong can accept the *real* truth that there is no difference between “dead” and “alive” except comforting illusions. All is, in fact, dead.
Likewise, there is no difference between objective and subjective, except biologically evolved illusions that *fool* the organism into surviving. All is in fact “objective”; there is no “interiour”, no “self”, no “inner”, no “entering in” to anything.
I’m just trying to help all of you get back to empirical experience and to stop relying upon mumbo-jumbo theories and ideas that make you feel strong and “in control”. If we can all just pay attention to how things really are, here and now, and stop masticating our ideas into smithereens all the time, perhaps we’ll be ready for some real progress.
And don’t forget: You’re Dead!
With Love,
Orfeo
Thanks. I always wanted to know what it was like to be dead. BTW, you sure know a lot for a dead guy.
Yeah well, you know the story; I went back for Euridike, things didn’t go so well…. Live and learn… er… um… die and learn– I guess.
But speaking as I was before, the thing must be that “I” don’t know anything at all. It’s my brain which knows. I just think I’m acquiring learning in order to motivate me to continue to expose my brain to new things. In fact, I don’t exist. And even if I did (and I assure you, I don’t), I’d only be along for the ride.
So really, you’ll have to thank my brain (which does exist), not me (not here; no one home; sorry) for all that. I could try and pass it along for you, but I think it would be better if it heard it in person.
You are much more of a philosopher than I presumed. Perhaps we were made for each other.
Either way..
Come away with me, my love. Do not regard the condenscension of others. Whether they are right or wrong, I love you, have always loved you even when I could not feel it, or even, know it.
The lonely one, sometimes misunderstood, he is the one I love and understand.
When the stars go out, I will still, for all my apparent duplicity, be here. I plan to shine for you.